Comments on: First let me say how incredibly happy I am (before I undertake an exquisitely footnoted attack on the Mormons’ attack on my family) http://www.nonfamous.com/wp/2008/11/05/first-let-me-say-how-incredibly-happy-i-am-before-i-undertake-an-exquisitely-footnoted-attack-on-the-mormons-attack-on-my-family/ commentary on the world around us, with an effort to keep paranoia at the lowest healthy level Mon, 15 Aug 2011 23:38:23 -0400 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Terry http://www.nonfamous.com/wp/2008/11/05/first-let-me-say-how-incredibly-happy-i-am-before-i-undertake-an-exquisitely-footnoted-attack-on-the-mormons-attack-on-my-family/comment-page-1/#comment-127923 Terry Wed, 17 Dec 2008 00:30:19 +0000 http://www.nonfamous.com/wp/2008/11/05/first-let-me-say-how-incredibly-happy-i-am-before-i-undertake-an-exquisitely-footnoted-attack-on-the-mormons-attack-on-my-family/#comment-127923 The only positive that can be taken away from this episode of "buy the vote" is that with a larger turnout in California this vote was closer than the previous referendum. The thing to look forward to is the very real possibility of the CA Supreme Court striking this down like they did the last one. Civil marriage statutes should not be held hostage to sexual orientation any more than they should be to race. Two consenting adults looking to share a life and wanting the legal and economic protection that civil marriage provides should not be subject to the religious views of anyone. A church can refuse to provide facilities, personnel or sanction of the sacrament if it does not jibe with their dogma but the State must extend the legal protection of its licensed institutions to all members of society. That is what it means to be equal before the law. It will be a rude awakening for the "religious" of the world when they realize that we are all equal in God's love, too. The only positive that can be taken away from this episode of “buy the vote” is that with a larger turnout in California this vote was closer than the previous referendum. The thing to look forward to is the very real possibility of the CA Supreme Court striking this down like they did the last one.

Civil marriage statutes should not be held hostage to sexual orientation any more than they should be to race. Two consenting adults looking to share a life and wanting the legal and economic protection that civil marriage provides should not be subject to the religious views of anyone. A church can refuse to provide facilities, personnel or sanction of the sacrament if it does not jibe with their dogma but the State must extend the legal protection of its licensed institutions to all members of society. That is what it means to be equal before the law. It will be a rude awakening for the “religious” of the world when they realize that we are all equal in God’s love, too.

]]> By: Zach http://www.nonfamous.com/wp/2008/11/05/first-let-me-say-how-incredibly-happy-i-am-before-i-undertake-an-exquisitely-footnoted-attack-on-the-mormons-attack-on-my-family/comment-page-1/#comment-126426 Zach Mon, 24 Nov 2008 07:34:29 +0000 http://www.nonfamous.com/wp/2008/11/05/first-let-me-say-how-incredibly-happy-i-am-before-i-undertake-an-exquisitely-footnoted-attack-on-the-mormons-attack-on-my-family/#comment-126426 Jay, once again. Please check your facts before you use them as arguments. This isn't the first time we've weighed in. And secondly, blacks descended from Satan??? No, that was not the issue. Please try and read something other than Anti-Mormom literature to get your arguments. And fine, play ball, it's your right, as leila said, but don't think that singling out people and hate is going to help. As she said, do it with class. Jay, once again. Please check your facts before you use them as arguments. This isn’t the first time we’ve weighed in. And secondly, blacks descended from Satan??? No, that was not the issue. Please try and read something other than Anti-Mormom literature to get your arguments. And fine, play ball, it’s your right, as leila said, but don’t think that singling out people and hate is going to help. As she said, do it with class.

]]> By: jay http://www.nonfamous.com/wp/2008/11/05/first-let-me-say-how-incredibly-happy-i-am-before-i-undertake-an-exquisitely-footnoted-attack-on-the-mormons-attack-on-my-family/comment-page-1/#comment-126415 jay Sat, 22 Nov 2008 19:01:15 +0000 http://www.nonfamous.com/wp/2008/11/05/first-let-me-say-how-incredibly-happy-i-am-before-i-undertake-an-exquisitely-footnoted-attack-on-the-mormons-attack-on-my-family/#comment-126415 The issue here is that the Mormon church wanted to run on the field of democracy, make their play and run back off. If you play you have to take your hits like everyone else. I don't hate mormons -- I just think they are possibly the last religious group that needs to weigh in on marriage. Or civil rights... since they only stopped believing blacks were descended from Satan in the 70s. Gays have been an easy political target for a long time because we didn't hit back. Those days are over, as the Mormon Church is learning. The issue here is that the Mormon church wanted to run on the field of democracy, make their play and run back off. If you play you have to take your hits like everyone else. I don’t hate mormons — I just think they are possibly the last religious group that needs to weigh in on marriage. Or civil rights… since they only stopped believing blacks were descended from Satan in the 70s.

Gays have been an easy political target for a long time because we didn’t hit back. Those days are over, as the Mormon Church is learning.

]]> By: Leila http://www.nonfamous.com/wp/2008/11/05/first-let-me-say-how-incredibly-happy-i-am-before-i-undertake-an-exquisitely-footnoted-attack-on-the-mormons-attack-on-my-family/comment-page-1/#comment-126405 Leila Thu, 20 Nov 2008 23:40:49 +0000 http://www.nonfamous.com/wp/2008/11/05/first-let-me-say-how-incredibly-happy-i-am-before-i-undertake-an-exquisitely-footnoted-attack-on-the-mormons-attack-on-my-family/#comment-126405 This is interesting. Don't we live in a democracy? The people of California were given a choice, on a ballot, and they chose. Some donated money to their cause, for whatever side they were on. Your message above is a message of hate, and it saddens me. You cry for equal rights, yet you are picking out a people, a religious group, and making fun and demoralizing them. Isn't that in contrast to everything you say stand for? Couldn't that be called hypocritical? Yes, Mormons believe a marriage is between a man and a woman. I am not going to say whether I agree with them or not. I am going to say that they have a RIGHT to that opinion. They even have a right to support that opinion with their hard earned dollars. That is the beauty of America. In all of this backlash after the election I see so much hate, I see YOU picking out a group of people and hating them for exercising their right to a democracy. You are going to follow their missionaries around and harass them? You are threatening to scare them taunt them every chance you get? From what I can tell, Mormons are law abiding citizens. When polygamy became illegal, they quit practicing it. They could have screamed about their rights being taken away, they could have cried and said people hated them. They simply followed the law. I understand that you feel your rights are being taken away. I support you in that effort. But, c'mon, harassing and spiting out hatred is not the way to get what you want. It just makes you look bitter and ugly. And frankly, it is contrast to everything I believe America stands for. Fight for your rights, but do it with some class. You can even dislike Mormons. But trying to scare them, taking their rights away to have an opinion.... hmmmm... you might want to stop and think about what you are suggesting. This is interesting. Don’t we live in a democracy? The people of California were given a choice, on a ballot, and they chose. Some donated money to their cause, for whatever side they were on. Your message above is a message of hate, and it saddens me. You cry for equal rights, yet you are picking out a people, a religious group, and making fun and demoralizing them. Isn’t that in contrast to everything you say stand for? Couldn’t that be called hypocritical? Yes, Mormons believe a marriage is between a man and a woman. I am not going to say whether I agree with them or not. I am going to say that they have a RIGHT to that opinion. They even have a right to support that opinion with their hard earned dollars. That is the beauty of America. In all of this backlash after the election I see so much hate, I see YOU picking out a group of people and hating them for exercising their right to a democracy. You are going to follow their missionaries around and harass them? You are threatening to scare them taunt them every chance you get? From what I can tell, Mormons are law abiding citizens. When polygamy became illegal, they quit practicing it. They could have screamed about their rights being taken away, they could have cried and said people hated them. They simply followed the law. I understand that you feel your rights are being taken away. I support you in that effort. But, c’mon, harassing and spiting out hatred is not the way to get what you want. It just makes you look bitter and ugly. And frankly, it is contrast to everything I believe America stands for. Fight for your rights, but do it with some class. You can even dislike Mormons. But trying to scare them, taking their rights away to have an opinion…. hmmmm… you might want to stop and think about what you are suggesting.

]]> By: Zach http://www.nonfamous.com/wp/2008/11/05/first-let-me-say-how-incredibly-happy-i-am-before-i-undertake-an-exquisitely-footnoted-attack-on-the-mormons-attack-on-my-family/comment-page-1/#comment-125866 Zach Tue, 11 Nov 2008 10:22:05 +0000 http://www.nonfamous.com/wp/2008/11/05/first-let-me-say-how-incredibly-happy-i-am-before-i-undertake-an-exquisitely-footnoted-attack-on-the-mormons-attack-on-my-family/#comment-125866 As an active Mormon, browsing to see how this is all panning out. I can tell you are upset, but you don't fully understand. While I followed some of your annotated links I saw the depth of your ignorance of our beliefs. I know we don't understand each other and probably little of what I way will change your mind. In fact, i don't even live in California, so I had no say in the vote anyway. And fine, we felt strongly about this issue. You feel it is matter of rights, that this is a free country. Well that doesn't promise everyone that they get what they want. There still have to be laws or there isn't safety in our freedom. We felt we should support it, you felt you should oppose it. We have our reasons and you have yours. This is not about personal hatred. This is not about bigotry. To me, I stand for what I know is right. If you want to contest that, you should know that even as an active member, I have "broken the rules", but what I know to be true persuades me to change. Some people, even those who are gay in the LDS church have felt the same way. So, go ahead, protest our temples. Make us out to be bigots. But please, maybe you should also try to understand us, not just throw out whatever seems the most scandalous and outrageous, because anyone can do that with any group. Try Muslims for example. In the end I can't contest that fact, that overall LDS contributors gave the most, but don't forget everyone had a say in it. As an active Mormon, browsing to see how this is all panning out. I can tell you are upset, but you don’t fully understand. While I followed some of your annotated links I saw the depth of your ignorance of our beliefs. I know we don’t understand each other and probably little of what I way will change your mind. In fact, i don’t even live in California, so I had no say in the vote anyway. And fine, we felt strongly about this issue. You feel it is matter of rights, that this is a free country. Well that doesn’t promise everyone that they get what they want. There still have to be laws or there isn’t safety in our freedom. We felt we should support it, you felt you should oppose it. We have our reasons and you have yours. This is not about personal hatred. This is not about bigotry. To me, I stand for what I know is right. If you want to contest that, you should know that even as an active member, I have “broken the rules”, but what I know to be true persuades me to change. Some people, even those who are gay in the LDS church have felt the same way. So, go ahead, protest our temples. Make us out to be bigots. But please, maybe you should also try to understand us, not just throw out whatever seems the most scandalous and outrageous, because anyone can do that with any group. Try Muslims for example.
In the end I can’t contest that fact, that overall LDS contributors gave the most, but don’t forget everyone had a say in it.

]]> By: paulette http://www.nonfamous.com/wp/2008/11/05/first-let-me-say-how-incredibly-happy-i-am-before-i-undertake-an-exquisitely-footnoted-attack-on-the-mormons-attack-on-my-family/comment-page-1/#comment-125674 paulette Fri, 07 Nov 2008 09:14:50 +0000 http://www.nonfamous.com/wp/2008/11/05/first-let-me-say-how-incredibly-happy-i-am-before-i-undertake-an-exquisitely-footnoted-attack-on-the-mormons-attack-on-my-family/#comment-125674 Jay, I love you and your eloquence. And I will fight with everything I can for you and David, who are the epitome of what a marriage should be, and all of my gay friends, family, and coworkers to have equal protection under the law. I feel like I shouldn't be shocked by Prop 8 passing, but I guess I shouldn't be. I've recently been discouraged to see so much homophobia at Microsoft on discussion aliases. It's disturbing to know the diversity message doesn't quite make it around to everyone. More distressing to read mail from Microsoft FTEs denigrating the rights of gay people to equal protection while another coworker tells me she's been crying for hours because she doesn't know if her marriage is still valid anywhere. Count me in the for the fight. Count me in to support a new ballot measure to overturn the ban, to fight to have the mormon church's tax exemption revoked, and to help fund any lawsuits challenging this stupid proposition. I'm mad at California, but even more mad at Florida right now, and proud of my former CT home. We're all in this fight together. Jay, I love you and your eloquence. And I will fight with everything I can for you and David, who are the epitome of what a marriage should be, and all of my gay friends, family, and coworkers to have equal protection under the law.

I feel like I shouldn’t be shocked by Prop 8 passing, but I guess I shouldn’t be. I’ve recently been discouraged to see so much homophobia at Microsoft on discussion aliases. It’s disturbing to know the diversity message doesn’t quite make it around to everyone. More distressing to read mail from Microsoft FTEs denigrating the rights of gay people to equal protection while another coworker tells me she’s been crying for hours because she doesn’t know if her marriage is still valid anywhere.

Count me in the for the fight. Count me in to support a new ballot measure to overturn the ban, to fight to have the mormon church’s tax exemption revoked, and to help fund any lawsuits challenging this stupid proposition.

I’m mad at California, but even more mad at Florida right now, and proud of my former CT home.

We’re all in this fight together.

]]> By: jay http://www.nonfamous.com/wp/2008/11/05/first-let-me-say-how-incredibly-happy-i-am-before-i-undertake-an-exquisitely-footnoted-attack-on-the-mormons-attack-on-my-family/comment-page-1/#comment-125642 jay Fri, 07 Nov 2008 01:04:21 +0000 http://www.nonfamous.com/wp/2008/11/05/first-let-me-say-how-incredibly-happy-i-am-before-i-undertake-an-exquisitely-footnoted-attack-on-the-mormons-attack-on-my-family/#comment-125642 Thanks Vickie and Sean for your comments... there's a lot to be hopeful for, and people like you are near the top of the list. But we WILL get even! :) Thanks Vickie and Sean for your comments… there’s a lot to be hopeful for, and people like you are near the top of the list. But we WILL get even! :)

]]> By: david http://www.nonfamous.com/wp/2008/11/05/first-let-me-say-how-incredibly-happy-i-am-before-i-undertake-an-exquisitely-footnoted-attack-on-the-mormons-attack-on-my-family/comment-page-1/#comment-125635 david Fri, 07 Nov 2008 00:19:11 +0000 http://www.nonfamous.com/wp/2008/11/05/first-let-me-say-how-incredibly-happy-i-am-before-i-undertake-an-exquisitely-footnoted-attack-on-the-mormons-attack-on-my-family/#comment-125635 The Mormom Church deserves to lose its tax-exempt status because of this, and according to IRS legislation, it should. <a href="http://www.mormonsstoleourrights.com/" rel="nofollow">Here's how you can make that happen</a>. The Mormom Church deserves to lose its tax-exempt status because of this, and according to IRS legislation, it should. Here’s how you can make that happen.

]]> By: Vickie Duncan http://www.nonfamous.com/wp/2008/11/05/first-let-me-say-how-incredibly-happy-i-am-before-i-undertake-an-exquisitely-footnoted-attack-on-the-mormons-attack-on-my-family/comment-page-1/#comment-125623 Vickie Duncan Thu, 06 Nov 2008 20:36:44 +0000 http://www.nonfamous.com/wp/2008/11/05/first-let-me-say-how-incredibly-happy-i-am-before-i-undertake-an-exquisitely-footnoted-attack-on-the-mormons-attack-on-my-family/#comment-125623 I just wanted to say, as a Utahn who has recently resigned from the LDS church, I am so happy to know that others are not giving up on this..my heart broke when Prop 8 passed. I cried real tears when Mormon Mothers against Prop 8 had a candle vigil the night before the election. Many hugs..I belong to a postmormon group that had great support for those who were against Prop 8...so many worked hard and with a loss of membership/family. Courage!! Lets fix this!! I just wanted to say, as a Utahn who has
recently resigned from the LDS church, I am
so happy to know that others are not giving
up on this..my heart broke when Prop 8 passed.

I cried real tears when Mormon Mothers against
Prop 8 had a candle vigil the night before the
election.

Many hugs..I belong to a postmormon group that
had great support for those who were against
Prop 8…so many worked hard and with a loss
of membership/family. Courage!! Lets fix this!!

]]> By: Sean http://www.nonfamous.com/wp/2008/11/05/first-let-me-say-how-incredibly-happy-i-am-before-i-undertake-an-exquisitely-footnoted-attack-on-the-mormons-attack-on-my-family/comment-page-1/#comment-125617 Sean Thu, 06 Nov 2008 19:05:46 +0000 http://www.nonfamous.com/wp/2008/11/05/first-let-me-say-how-incredibly-happy-i-am-before-i-undertake-an-exquisitely-footnoted-attack-on-the-mormons-attack-on-my-family/#comment-125617 This is an awesome article. Being a San Franciscan, and Ex-Mormon...I totally relate to everything you've talked about here. The entire Prop 8 situation frustrates me to no end, and even further solidifies my stance as an Ex-Mormon. Props to you for writing this! This is an awesome article. Being a San Franciscan, and Ex-Mormon…I totally relate to everything you’ve talked about here. The entire Prop 8 situation frustrates me to no end, and even further solidifies my stance as an Ex-Mormon. Props to you for writing this!

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